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The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is much more nuanced. Both countries’ current heads of state are kinda like “all this land is my country’s, the other country should not exist.” It’s unclear who is right.
The Russo-Ukranian conflict is clear. One leader is claiming the land of the other, the other just want it back. Ukraine’s government is not claiming half of Russia.
One leader is claiming the land of the other, the other just want it back.
At the end of the day who is Isreal and who Palestine. If no one who was alive when Palestine was around can anyone rightfully claim it the land belongs to “Palestine”. It’s like the ship Theseus or something. Maybe I’m just dumb as fuck.
Just make the fuck up and work together instead of being greedy bigots.
“Unclear who is right”
No it’s pretty clear, out with the colonizer government. How is this a question?
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I get that there is lot more nuances than russo-ukrainian, but imo there is a lot more similarities than you seem to imply : both Russia and Israel claimed that the land belonged to them before, that they should get it back, and use violence to kill local people who tried to resist or move them. The only difference is that Israel did it with the help of western countries and partially according to their laws, so they get like an aura of legitimity, but the acts remains quite close.
I do not like when people basically do not accept violent behavior but accepts them when they are allowed by some law or authority.
(Also yes Hamas is doing bad things and should be held accountable in some way, just like Ukraine to my eyes. But still, for me it remains obvious who kills more, who steals more, who oppresses more)
As a Ukrainian, let’s sort out what we’re accountable for once we’re not getting genocided. We also have a lot of questions to our own government, but I would still prefer it to the Russian
Palestine has attacked territory that was assigned to Palestine by the UN in 1947. The UN also makes it very clear that a country may lawfully recover occupied territory “by any means, including armed force”. UN laws are thus very clear: Ukraine and Palestine can recover territories by force. Now, that doesn’t mean you should support them in their struggle to do so, but if you don’t, it must be for some other reason (e.g., Israel taking over would constitute a huge strategic gain for the US, while Russia taking over would destabilize the world and thus benefit small or weakly aligned players).
It isn’t that nuanced. The colonized, subjugated population is rising up rather than laying down to continue getting slaughtered.
Liberate Palestine.
I feel like the people should have some say in who they want governing them.
True
“Lets have some nuance” people on their way to defend Nazi war criminals
I’ve seen so many stupid takes today, and this is one of them. The conflicts aren’t similar!
They’re not identical, but they have similarities. What Russia is trying to do to Ukraine is not dissimilar to what Israel did to Palestine half a century ago.
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Or Israeli
Sure.
lemm ee and dbzer0 users on their way to passively support whatever evil regime is in power
This is like blaming Ukraine because the Nazis living there killed Russian civilians. Terrorists exist in all countries but don’t always represent the country. Not sure why this is so fucking hard for people to parse.
You’d have a good point except for the fact that Hamas governs the Gaza Strip. So, it’s like blaming the government of Ukraine for the actions of the Ukrainian government.
Also, don’t think I missed you making up anti-Russian pogroms in Ukraine, buddy
Dumb meme, the 2 situations are not similar.
Yes, one is recent, impacts the West directly and a bunch of white people and the other is Palestine.
Nope, try again
How does a long time NATO ally not impact the west exactly? The Israel/Palestine confict has been in the news since I have paid attention to international politics.
That was the point. When it impacts the West directly, the we in the West decide to make things about right and wrong and morals and cook up excuses to throw more and more money because it serves our interests. When it’s Palestine… we decide to throw all of that out of the window and decide fund Israel (the aggressor) instead.
This entire weird conversation aside, Palestine/Israel conflict does not currently affect the West. It could hypothetically escalate until it affected the West I suppose.
Also, Israel is not in NATO. They are a “NATO partner” but are not legally tied to the security alliance.
2edgy4me
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Idk if this is a hot take, but imo the war in Ukraine is pretty clear city while the Palestinian and Israeli conflict his an infinite list of wrinkles and nuances.
It’s far less controversial to say the former is Russia’s fault than it is to say the latter is either Palestine’s or Israel’s fault.
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Palestinian conflict is very simple: an army vs civilians. Only gonna end when all the latter are dead.
Should we ever try to sanction that army? Never! Should we try sanctioning US for killing million iraqis who had not a WMD? No! Should we sanction Nato for bombing the wealthiest african estate libya to it’s ruin? Ah wait, WE are Nato. Can’t shoot own ankle.
HAMAS isn’t Palestine. Israel isn’t Judaism.
Let’s make a list of all the ways Ukraine is different to Palestine.
We’ll be here a while.
- Ukraine is 7 letters and Palestine is 9
Illuminati confirmed
Tasteless
Warning: Some super-unique hot takes from edgelords here!
Proceed with caution…
idk, from an american perspective, pretty sure the americans that support Ukraine also support Palestine, whereas the americans that support Russia also support Israel.
mostly certain.
No, there is a big group that supports Ukraine and Israel.
And that group includes a majority in Congress, President Biden and (in Ukraine) president Zelensky.
And then there are also the tankies that support Palestine and Russia.
Finally, a lot of people are neutral or non-aligned in Israel vs Palestine, including myself, but definitely pro-Ukraine.
So, does supporting Palestine automatically make you a tankie?
No, you have to support Russia’s invasions of its neighbours to be a tankie.
Tankie is just a word internet creeps use as a derogatory term for “on the right side of history” so yes it does.
Or “people I disagree with that I accuse of saying ridiculous shit that while they never stop saying it I simultaneously can not point to a single instance of it being said”
I absolutely cannot keep track of the layers of betrayal and reconciliation. Anyone who tells you that an issue in the Middle East is certain is, at best, benignly unaware. It is utterly unsalvageable on both sides.
pretty sure the americans that support Ukraine also support Palestine
I’d like to see those people square that up with this: https://thelemmy.club/pictrs/image/90177c67-3aa3-4cb6-88cb-72c96b2a441d.jpeg
i mean, supporting a country’s current struggle doesn’t equal supporting every view of that country’s leader.
shrug
But Israel supports Ukraine, hmmmm.
Ppl who have no idea how palestinian conflict started half a century ago commenting like ‘completely different cases!’
Same ppl fifty years later and war continues in Ukraine: ‘ok, now I get it’
I’m so proud of my government for acting consistently. They support Russia and Israel.
(I get why they’re doing it, but it still feels wrong.)
Slava Ukraine.
Rise up Palestine.
Burn the oppressors of the world and light our way to a better future.
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