• TheFriar@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Honestly, this place is full of communists. I’m not the biggest fan of communists, to be frank. There is a lot of backwards ideas that get accepted as “leftist,” when they’re really statist. Particularly revisionist history statist. If a communist party said it, you gotta defend it kinda thing.

    • Inevitable Waffles [Ohio]@midwest.social
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      1 year ago

      I don’t identify as a communist. I just don’t want life to be unreasonably difficult for people. Thats it. I just what the promise of what labor was supposed to be. I want it to free us from the shackles of work or die. Guess that is extreme left now even with tankies around the corner from us.

      • Carvex@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Exactly. We have 50 years of computer driven exponential growth and not a fucking thing is better for us. We don’t work less, travel more, be richer, live a better life, or have a better future for the planet. It should make everyone anti-capitalist.

      • Facebones@reddthat.com
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        1 year ago

        This. When I was younger I considered myself pretty centrist, generally people would agree. My views never really changed, but the Overton window has shot so far right I now get called a commie (I guess here I’m a tankie? Still dunno wtf that’s about except a slur for ‘left of Biden’) because I think a 40 hour work week should put a basic roof over your head, whether an efficency on your own or a roomie in a nicer spot.

        • tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip
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          1 year ago

          (I guess here I’m a tankie? Still dunno wtf that’s about except a slur for ‘left of Biden’)

          As far as I can make out, tankies are people who support communist governments even when they go way too far. So even though leaders like Jinping are essentially dictators, because they’re ostensibly communist the tankies support them.

          At least that’s what I’ve seen from a few weeks on lemmy. I’m sure some tankies will be along to correct me soon.

          • Facebones@reddthat.com
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            1 year ago

            Ah, so the thing I still haven’t seen happen except for everyone saying it happens to attack leftist instances.

            Oh, and people attacking others for worshipping someone all in when they point to any particular point of a particular person (IE “In regards to X, Lenin said Y” “Oh HeRe We gO aNoThEr LeNiN wOrShiPpInG tAnKiE”)

            Of course, I’m sure there’s SOMEBODY out here simping for China or whatever, but if that silly small percentage paints all leftists then by their own logic all capitalists should be branded as fascists - WAY more “right” people calling for fascism around here than China worshipperss and whatnot.

      • Deftdrummer@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Not extreme left but it’s socialist and isn’t consistent with American ideals. You can bitch about that shit if you want but we’re in the decay phase after a gluttonous society and you think the answer is communism? You do, you think everyone and everything should be “fair” but life and this country don’t work like that.

        • Inevitable Waffles [Ohio]@midwest.social
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          1 year ago

          Could be if we tried. The democrats have been neo-lib appeasement artists because they are a part of the ruling class. This system cannot hold. Something will change. We just have to wait and see which way it breaks. Either way, I’m already doing the work to see a world I want. I don’t care about the noise. Arguments like “Life ain’t fair” are a poor substitute for putting yourself out there. I used to think much the same way. But, I had to do something about how bad it is getting.

    • Rottcodd@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      There is a lot of backwards ideas that get accepted as “leftist,” when they’re really statist.

      This is my objection too.

      All too many people here don’t seem to even begin to understand the inherent threats of institutionalized authority, so in their rush to head off the recreation of the Third Reich, they’re basically advocating for the recreation of the Khmer Rouge instead.

    • Anamana@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      Define ‘full of communists’… cause it sounds like such an american phrase and perspective. To me, it’s just a more leftwing centered space. The real communists are a minority. At least on the biggest Lemmy servers.

        • Anamana@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          Yeah but those instances are not nearly as big as lemmyworld and the others. I also didn’t say that there were no communists at all. There are just not as many as OP made it out to be.

          • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            I just checked and you’re instance isn’t federated with Hexbear so you don’t see their users’ comments, my instance was federated with them for a couple of days and it made the Lemmy experience a mess.

            • Anamana@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              I have more than one account, none of them get many communist posts. Maybe there’s one in there in a few rare occasions but it’s not significant.

      • TheFriar@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Lol I’m not crying “SOCIALISM!” because someone recommended taking care of poor people. And maybe it’s just the communities on lemm.ee, maybe it’s because I interact with the communities more because I can’t bite my tongue. But I come across way more communist communities than anything else. Your instance matters. I see a lot of communist communities. As an anarchist, the prevalence of communism on lemmy is troubling to me because I see huge flaws in the thinking and i want to see the left not follow down a doomed hierarchical road that has proven to be a failure over and over and over again.

        • ReactionContraption@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Communism traditionally is anarchist - hence the stateless society ideal. The big question has always been, how to get (or get back to) there. I think you and I see flaws with gradualism and incremental devolution of state and hierarchy, and that is definitely somewhere that I come into contrast with many other lefties on here.

          I’m pretty big on anarchist communism, and also pretty weary of any compromise: Socialism, state-based communism, SocDem, and all the rest. But personally I feel like I have more in common with a Leninist or even a Maoist than any died-in-the-wool neoliberal.

        • Anamana@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          Hm might be. On lemmy, the instances you’re signed on significantly affect your experience.

          Lemmy world and feddit never gave me such vibes tho. But it might also be because you’re indirectly looking for these confrontations.

          • TheFriar@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Lemmy.world I think has banned most tankie subs. It wasn’t until the endless problems with lemmy.world that I switched over to lemm.ee and I see way more communist shit, but have way fewer connectivity issues.

        • Gabu@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          i want to see the left not follow down a doomed hierarchical road that has proven to be a failure

          Instead you’d want everyone to adopt a system that literally can’t possibly work. Genius.

          • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 year ago

            What system do you think they are referring to as an anarchist? Anarchism is simply opposition to hierarchies that allow control over others, such as the control capitalists have over workers by owning the means of production and political forces. The system that anarchists advance in place of that can take an unlimited number of forms.

            • Gabu@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Anarchism is simply opposition to hierarchies that allow control over others, such as the control capitalists have over workers

              Or the control the hierarchical entity (state) must have over a populous to stop thievery and violence. Even in a perfectly idealized world, anarchism only just barely gets to work, teetering on the brink of collapse.

              • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 year ago

                We have a state now though, has thievery and violence been stopped? How many thousands are in poverty, how many are killed in global wars waged in the name of profits? There are states where theft and murder are extremely rare, and states where it is common. What is the difference between the conditions where it is common and uncommon? Is a top-down control and manipulation the only way to reduce violence?

                Anarchism works all the time. It’s more than a political structure, it’s an idea about how to organize relations between people, and there already are many groups that are active that function on anarchist principles.

                Any group that collects itself in the modern world as anarchist, like anarchist groups in the Spanish Civil War, are heavily repressed by state forces. Capitalist states work together to discourage anarchist ideals even more so than communism because of the possibility it has for threatening traditional power structures.

                • Gabu@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  the possibility it has for threatening traditional power structures.

                  You mean the possibility of completely collapsing civilization as a whole.

                  We have a state now though, has thievery and violence been stopped?

                  Fallacious reasoning, and pretty obvious at that. I give you a cup of water - some water has been poisoned by heavy metals. If you drink the cup of water, will you get metal poisoning? The only intellectually honest answer is: the question is flawed. The same way it doesn’t follow that
                  Some water is poisoned ⇏ All water is poisoned
                  It also doesn’t follow that
                  The suppression of violence begets control ⇏ All control suppresses violence.

                  This is further proven by your following statement

                  What is the difference between the conditions where it is common and uncommon?

                  Which opposes your own argumentation.

                  • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 year ago

                    You said a state must have control to stop thievery and murder, but I’ve never heard of a state that successfully stopped those things, is what I was getting at. The point about conditions where violence is common or less common is that there are more primary factors to violence than whether or not someone will be punished by state forces for that violence. There are more effective ways to combat violence and theft than a police state.